EPISODE 10: Equipment Care

Music. Welcome back to INFINITE TALK, the podcast of the adidas TERREX INFINITE TRAILS in Gastein. Already guys, episode number 10 and today we are starting a new series in getting you ready for the INFINITE TRAILS in 2025. Nine episodes already on youtube as well as on Spotify and wherever you're listening to our podcast series. Today is episode 10. You saw it and you heard it, it's the equipment care. We call it "Beyond the wash: the future of care for shoes, apparel and sports eyewear. In our previous episodes, remember, we explored how to prepare and how to take care about your body and the mind for trail running. Today we are shifting the focus to our gear, because if you want it to perform when it matters and to last over time it just needs as much attention and care as your body. Today I'm here with Arthur van der Kroft the owner, CEO and the creator of the adidas CARE by DFNS collection. And DFNS is the license holder of adidas CARE. Is this right? Good morning! Good morning. That's quite a mouthful, but yes that's correct. We, as a care brand, we have the global adidas CARE license for footwear and apparel aftercare solutions. So Arthur, you developed a passion for developing cleaning solutions for sports shoes and apparel, and more recently also for eyewear. Where does this passion come from, and how did it start? Well, it's a little bit of a story, obviously, when you get a little bit older, but basically the passion already started actually from early age. I was always into sports, always into my gear, always cleaning my football boots. I was really into gear at the same time. At the end of the day, the real interest came actually from initially a pure business opportunity. We had the opportunity to invest into a care brand back in 2013, which we actually ended that relationship at the end of 2018. But we still had all these ideas around care because we really got into this aftercare business. And we had all these ideas around not only footwear care, but also around apparel care. We had ideas around sustainability. It was quite a conservative, still quite a polluting industry as well. So we really saw the opportunities from kind of a sustainability side. And then we started really to do our own product development. And that really created the passion for us because it's so easy sometimes. Well, easy is the wrong word. But I think if you really start paying attention to the product, to the product development, we created our own lab, it's just great to be able to crank out sustainable product, basically. And do the right thing at the end of the day. So when you go on Google or on ChatGPT and you type into the prompt equipment care, we're going to get a description. How do you define the equipment care? Well, for us, it's always around aftercare. So it's always around that. We always have three categories. Protecting. So that's waterproofing, stain-proofing. We've got cleaning, so real clean solutions. and then we also obviously do a lot of refresh products. And for me, equipment care is head to toe. I mean, we want to, let's say, support an athlete head to toe from basically whether it's the eyewear that they're wearing, the apparel that they're wearing, the shoes that they're wearing, but we also want to make sure that their yoga mats are also clean and fresh. So it's across board, so it really is around equipment care at the end of the day for an athlete. So it's a holistic approach, it's like a 360-degree approach - everything counts when it comes to equipment care. Yeah, and I think even, I mean, and this might be a little bit of a long shot, but I think even on tech care, I think whatever, let's say, the athlete is using. That's where we want to be and make sure that he is clean, refreshed, or protected. So why do you think equipment care and the maintenance is more relevant today than ever before? I think there's two sides to this. One is I think that we can talk obviously about the sustainability side of things. I think we all know that, let's say, the world is changing and we have to do better, basically. So I think that that's almost obviously a discussion on its own, but climates are changing. I mean, whether we like it or not, you look around the world, what's happening, it's happening. So yeah. And obviously, the footwear and apparel industry is probably one of the most polluting industry out there. So we have an obligation, let's say, to improve. So taking care, let's say, of the equipment by extending product lifecycle is obviously super relevant because you want to keep your product. The most sustainable product out there is actually the one that you're wearing today, and you want to keep that in circulation as long as you can. So I think that's one side of the equation. There's a real, let's say, sustainable answer to it. I think the other side of the equation is, I mean, products are becoming, all your apparel are becoming more and more technical, very specific in some of the new technologies that are out there, and they need special attention. So, if you really want to keep up the performance, let's say, of your gear, it definitely needs to be addressed by product or maintenance product, let's say, that is targeted specifically towards that specific, let's say, gear. Really interesting. When it comes to philosophies, I think we are very similar. adidas TERREX INFINITE TRAILS is a sustainable event and you're also a very, very sustainable company. Sustainability is one of our core values at Infinite Trials and also one of the goals. We're working with a lot of points of the UN Charter when it comes to sustainability. For that we often think outside the box, as you guys as well, and we found similarities in your approach and what defines you as a brand. And when I was preparing for that podcast, I searched on the website and I found two quotes. One was "Innovation, sustainability, sports performance and lifestyle. That's what we are about. We create green solutions that empower you to care for your gear without being tough on the environment." Can you give us a bit of an explanation of that? I mean, it's obviously quite holistic, let's say, those statements. But I think the essence is we love sports. We believe in the power of sport. We believe in the power of community. And people need to take care, obviously, of their equipment and their gear. I think that where this comes from a little bit, and this is, I mean, you asked a question earlier about passion, but even when we talk about the adidas exercise, what you see a lot nowadays is that all the brands out there are definitely taking responsibility, let's say, for their output. But what you see a lot is that brands basically focus on either the front end, so from the design stage to the material usage to the production facilities, or at the end of a product life cycle. So the whole recycling programs, the refurbished programs. But this middle part actually when the customer has their product, they don't have any products or services against it to either keep up the performance or to extend product life cycle. There's one daunting figure that's always daunting to me. But one third out of a product's environmental footprint actually comes out of the usage stage. So a very simple example, how many times do you wash? Do you wash warm? Do you wash cold? So one third out of the equation actually comes from the moment that a customer has the product in their hand. And that's basically what we try to do is create green solutions that are not tough on the environment. So that's kind of the background on that statement. Second statement is "We have a nerdy obsession with sustainable innovation harnessing the power of air and creating solutions that revolutionize how you care for your gear." Are you a nerdy? We are definitely a nerdy. We love product. We love product development. It's, I mean, the biggest challenge, obviously, with cranking out sustainable product. Let me also be frank. We are not perfect. So we are, I mean, we're not perfect. We're trying our utmost. We continue to improve. We continue to invest, let's say, in the solutions that we use, but we're not perfect. And finding this continued balance, let's say, between performance of a product and, let's say, the sustainability side of things, that's a fine line. And that's really fun to work at. I mean, really try to push the envelope, try to push the envelope with our teams. But it also comes down to pushing the envelope with our raw material suppliers. So there's a lot of, let's say, pieces to the puzzle, basically, to create product. But we're definitely nerds. We love what we do. And yeah, we're obsessed by it. Yeah, and one of the points on the UN Charter for sustainability is the education. And that's what we do. You know, as you mentioned, you know, nobody is perfect. But I think if you're just doing at most what you can do in terms of sustainability, then we're making the planet to be a better place to live. Sustainability and purpose. Many cleaning products aren't exactly eco-friendly. How are your products different from these products? Well, I think the basis is obviously is that whatever we do is everything is water-based. It's biodegradable. It's PFAS-free. So we have a few of those core values that, if we cannot get those in, like these core principles, we don't do the product. So there's a lot of product that we don't do because we're not able to do it in a good way, let's say. So attention to detail on the solution side is critical, yet we're not the only one. There's more people, let's say, that do it. We're not the only one that basically develop eco-friendly products. I think the big difference for us is that we pay a lot of attention, let's say, to the packaging and the way we kind of, like our Aluair device, which is obviously an air-pressured device. Those are huge investments that we're making. but it also gives the right output, let's say, and it gives the right performance of the product. So it's not only creating, let's say, the right solutions, but also making sure that, let's say, the performance is there as well. And that doesn't always relate only to the solution itself, but also to the type of packaging or the device that you use, let's say, to evaporate, let's say, the solution. So it's a combination of things that we try to do between solution development and, let's say, the devices that we use in order to create, let's say, the best combination. A good example, as an example, is we have our waterproofing spray. It's actually waterproofing and stain spray. It's water-based and it sits actually in a pressurized can. I don't think anybody does it. Are there people that are doing it in a pressurized can? Yes, but they all have highly polluting product. Are there people that do, let's say, water-based protect solutions? Yes, there are. But the combination of a pressurized can, in combination with the solution that we have, is unique. And it results also into a quick drying time, which you only get with chemical products. So it's a few pieces to the puzzle. It's maybe a little bit of a long answer, but it's kind of a few pieces to the puzzle. It's not only the solution, it's also the packaging, let's say, that we just create the best performance. It's a long answer, but you're bringing it to the point, and that is the most important thing when you're talking about sustainability. So how does care, taking care of your clothes or sneakers as well, prolong the product lifecycle and reduce the waste and the overconsumption? I think this is not rocket science. I think if you take care of your equipment, whatever it is, regardless, you extend the product lifecycle. I think that's key. If you take care of your things, no matter what it is, it will always extend the product lifecycle. I think it also is the combination of keeping up the performance. So as long as the shoes perform, the breathability is still there, the cushioning is still there, the freshness is still there, the insoles is still clean and operates. I think it's a combination of performance and that allows you and that wants you to carry that product forward, let's say. And so I don't think the answer is real rocket science. I think it's really taking care of your gear. I mean, you also take your car for maintenance. Why shouldn't you use the right product on your gear, let's say? Yeah, absolutely. And do you see today that the consumers are more conscious about the care and longevity? Do you get a feedback from the customers? Well, this is where I think, and this is a brutally honest answer. I think we still have a long, long way to go in terms of when we started, let's say, with defense, we were really, our USP was all around sustainability. We were shouting it left and right. That was kind of our unique thing. The reality is that the majority of the customers still today buy based on either brand or based on a price point. And sustainability is kind of a second layer, let's say, into it. So we as a brand, we've always also shifted a little bit gear that for us it's all around innovation at the moment. We want to be the most innovative care brand out there. And part of our DNA is sustainability. It becomes obviously a hotter topic and definitely I mean everybody's aware of it like I said look outside the window what's happening in the world everybody sees that there's climate change happening so I think everybody is aware but I think from a buying habit still people are buying based on brand or on price. The positive thing that is happening at the moment is there's a lot of legislation coming which is forcing everybody in the chain to improve. And I think because the whole sustainability legislation is still a little bit of a gray area. There's a lot of gray areas in there and there's clear legislation coming. I think at that point, which starting in 2030, if everything goes well, I think there's a lot of, let's say, positive changes because everybody in kind of the chain has to improve. So you were already mentioning that you guys are very innovative so what is the most innovative product you've made and what product are your the most proud of? Ooh, well, I mean, I mentioned it already. I mean, we've got our waterproofing spray, and I think this one is really, really unique. I don't think anybody out there is having it. There's a lot of protector sprays. There's a lot of waterproofing sprays out there. I mean, go to every store. You can buy them for 2.99 all the way up to probably 20 euros. But I think the solution that we built, like I said, water-based, PFAS-free, biodegradable, in a pressurized can that has a quick drying time. So it's very consumer-friendly. So it's very user-friendly. Let's say you really can look outside the window. Let's say it's raining. You protect them. Within 20 minutes, you're good to go, basically. And I think that combination is super unique. And I don't think anybody at the moment is out there that has this type of combination. So I think that's one. I think from a device perspective, we're obviously super, super, super proud of our AluAir device. We recently won the European Design Award with it as well. It's really unique. Made from 100% recycled aluminum. It's air pressured instead of gas pressured. Crazy figure, but basically, obviously, the traditional aerosol industry is a heavily polluting industry. There was recently a study in the UK whereby actually aerosols, so think about your derodorants, et cetera, are more polluting than all the cars in the UK. So finding a solution, let's say, that what we have done, which is actually proprietary to us, yeah, I'm super proud of it. And I think there's a long way in this as well. Developed basically in-house, produced in Germany. Everything is European-made, easy to recycle. Yeah, that's really one of our babies as well that we're super proud of. No, that's fantastic. And I think, you know, it's always like a starting point. And when you start something, you can create something and can probably change. And as we said, you know, sports has the power to change life. Why not also through products and especially with equipment care? So what goes into the creation of a product when it comes to adidas CARE? Because adidas is also a big brand, as you mentioned before. It's paying a lot of attention to sustainability. This was one of the most important factors when we started with INFINITE TRAILS in Gastein that we wanted to have a sustainable event. So what goes into creating a product you're really proud about now? Well, first of all, there's a lot of people involved when you deal with brands like Adidas. So there's obviously, you really see that you're dealing with one of the largest sporting goods brands, let's say, out there. So the starting point, which I think was also great for kind of the people on our side of the table is you go through the complete compliance process. So what adidas does is basically they audit all our factories. They audit all the solutions, all our raw materials. And all our sustainability claims are obviously being audited. All our usage claims are being audited. So it's quite a tedious process basically to go through even before you can get started, let's say, with adidas because they are definitely doing the right thing, let's say, and they're doing everything within their power, let's say, to crank out the right product. So that was the starting point, going through the whole, let's say, compliance process. And then obviously after that, then the fun starts basically because then you can start chatting with all the teams around what product do we need to create? What other parts can we do? We obviously created two collections right now, but it more has to do with kind of the distribution strategy between sport and originals, let's say. But it's then the fun start you get the product teams involved, you... Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a long process, but yeah, you just try to obviously come together to a collection, let's say, of product, design it. We did all the design side obviously together with them, but we really tried to tackle some of the issues that are out there. And there's a few obvious, the waterproofing, the refreshing stuff. I think refreshing for adidas was kind of key as well, because obviously refreshing is all about less washing. It's about less water use so it really fits within kind of the yeah what adidas wants obviously to have as well. But it's a process and it's obviously a product development process that both parties are highly involved in. At the same time once you went through the compliance they also have a trust basically in what we do. So yeah they rely let's say on our expertise as well on which product let's say needs you let's say be developed for adidas and then obviously we do testing there's a lot of testing going on against some of the let's say the materials that they use etc or some of the new materials that are coming. And so that, yeah, this is actually the fun stuff. I mean i'm a little bit vague maybe but this is really where the fun stuff because my mind is going everywhere right now because there's a lot of people involved, but this is the fun stuff really try to create solutions against the adidas athlete. Yeah it's the same for us you know as an event director it's great to create an event for the community where everybody is celebrating and having fun at the end. Also I think you you always want to be a bleeding edger, you know, you want to be sticking out of the mass, you want to do something special. But also as you said there is a lot of research coming into place. So let's go into the care culture, into practical expert advice. What are the most common mistakes people make when they're caring for shoes or clothes? Washing too much? Well, that's one for sure. Actually, there's this daunting figure that 40% of the clothes we wash in the Western world, so here it is, 40%, don't actually needed to be washed, but could also be refreshed. So I think that's a mistake overwashing in general. Again, two sides. It obviously impacts, let's say, sustainability, water usage, but it's also just not good for your clothes. So that's definitely one. And I think on the shoe side, it's overusing product. So whenever they just use too much of, let's say, the solutions, basically, and you sometimes don't need to do it. But overwashing is probably the most common mistake and the most daunting, let's say, and probably the one where we can make the most impact if we can influence everybody to wash a little bit less. So talking about the refresher, I have the product here in my hand, as you can see, guys. So can you explain to us what do you do, how do you work with it? So what does it to your clothes instead of washing? Well, basically, it attacks the root cause of what is causing the bad smell, let's say, in your garment. Not only in your apparel, you can use it on your shoes, but you can also use it on your yoga mat. So it's kind of this general refresher, basically. We use a solution which actually has probiotics in it. So it's a way of doing, killing, let's say, the... I'm now missing the word, but it's killing the bacteria, sorry, it's killing the bacteria basically in a natural way. So not in a chemical way, but in a very natural way. And it's lasting. So this product also is actually best after 24 hours because then it really starts working in basically and you get an instant refresh. But it's not only nmascating the smell, let's say, because that's most products, they just nmascate the smell. We, with the solution that we have, with the probiotics that we use, we really attack the root cause of the smell basically and really take it out, let's say. So that's the difference. Yeah, so just let's go into practice. so I did a nice trail run and it was not raining I'm not dirty at all. I'm just like it was cold in the morning and I was sweating. So when do I use the refresher for example? Well, I mean, the easiest way is obviously when you come back, it's wet basically from your sweat. So then it doesn't make sense to apply it right away. So normally you just hang it somewhere or hang it in your bathroom, let it dry, and then once it dried, then you apply the product basically. It's just a spray on basically, and you're good to go. And like a distance to the product, like 30 centimeters and just like go like this? We normally use 20 centimeters. So it's like you don't need to be super close, but 20 centimeters, basically, because, again, it's a pressurized can. So you really get a nice vaporization, basically. So it really spreads out nicely and evenly over the garment. Okay. So let's go for the next one, the protector. That is after the refresher, like preparation before the race? Yeah, I mean, the protector is really for your footwear. So it's something that we use on the footwear side. The Protector is a water-resistant spray. So you just spray it on, again, use about 20 centimeters, apply it, let's say, across the footwear that you want to apply it to, wait for 20 minutes, and you're good to go. And actually, within 24 hours, it's actually perfect. So it really is perfectly water-resistant. But after 20 minutes, it already works. The nice thing, and this is maybe also a little bit of an extra, it's not only water repelling but it's also stain repelling so it, again the shoe get dirty but it's way easier to clean afterwards so it also helps you to clean afterwards. Can I use it on my Gore-Tex jacket as well? Well, that's not necessary. Your Gore-Tex is already waterproof, so you don't need to, let's say, overdo it. But we do have cleaning solutions, basically, to clean out the membranes in your Gore-Tex jacket so that it keeps its waterproofness. But using, let's say, Protect on a... I have to move... because, again, we're sustainable. No, so on a waterproof jacket, you don't need to use it. So let's go for, because you already were talking about um cleaning, so cleaning after the run. I had a pretty muddy tray run my shoes look dirty, I used the protector spray before and right now i'm coming home. And luckily I bought a cleaning set. Let's open this one. So there is a cleaner inside. There is yeah there's basically three products inside so you have the cleaning solution itself, you have a brush, a premium brush, and then you have a microfiber towel basically to clean it. Again, we're not talking rocket science. Take a lukewarm bowl of water, put the brush in, not too much water, apply a little bit of the solution to it, and then just brush away just to get it off. The nice thing with the brushes is that you can use it both on a delicate upper, but you can also use it on your outsole. So you can actually use it. You don't need two different brushes, let's say, for the outsole and the upper. Fun fact maybe, the handle of the outsole, and you got one in your hand, you said, but the handle of the outsole is actually made from all the bottom of old soccer cleats. So we actually collect them, grind them, and then injection mold them again into the brush handle. So that's kind of a fun fact that we're actually using the bottoms of old soccer cleats basically to make the handle of it. That sounds amazing. Yeah, there's a lot of small little details. For instance, the tube that has the cleaning solution, it's actually compostable. Okay. So, stuff like that. So, there's a lot of detail, let's say, that also, again, went into the packaging. Always a combination of product, solution, and packaging. So you mentioned also, or we mentioned in the beginning, so right now it's also important to take maintenance of your eye glasses, of your glasses and running glasses. And right now you also developed a new product when it comes to eyewear care. Yeah, I mean, like I said before, we want to service the athlete head to toe. adidas, as you know, have a fantastic eyewear collection. A really high-end performance collection So we felt it was the right moment to come up with Let's say, eco-friendly eyewear care So the pack that you had actually has two products inside One is actually a cleaner So it cleans all the lenses, let's say. The other one is actually a defogger, that you can use as well and that you can apply. And it works across the board. So from your snow goggles all the way down to your, I don't know, your cycling eyewear to your running eyewear, it works across the board. So talking about INFINITE TRAILS, so it's before the race, it's during the race or right after the race. So what do I do before I start with the race? Well, I mean, first of all, I mean, super excited to be part of it again this upcoming season. I mean, obviously, the last time was the first time actually that we participated. And we had a blast. What an event, what a unique event to be in. So super honored to be able to be back. I think there's a few things that we want to do. I think on Thursday, we will be doing a workshop. So we will be doing a kind of a cleaning workshop for whoever is interested. Then on Friday, we actually do what we call a race prep in the expo. Like I said, we actually apply our protect solution if you want to. We apply the protect solution onto your footwear. Because again, it helps to not only make it water resistant. But it also helps, let's say, to take out the stains a little bit easier. So it's kind of your race prep, let's say, because on race day itself, we will again have our shoe cleaning service basically. So after the event once people are done we will take care of your uh of your shoes basically. And those are kind of the three things that we do. Yeah and guys if you're watching this podcast on youtube maybe you recognize Arthur again, because this was this energetic man standing on the shoe cleaning machine all day long. There was a long queue guys um to be there and once again Arthur thank you very much for joining INFINITE TRAILS especially with the team. I mean when you approached us with the idea of a shoe cleaning service I was a little bit hesitant because I thought okay we're talking about sustainability and then we bring in a machine probably using a thousand liters of water and correct me if I'm wrong but you said it's like - the total amount of water which was used for the shoe cleaning was less than 50 liters. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's minimal, basically. And this is also the way we basically prep our solution. So we want to use as little water always as possible as we can. And we were also pleasantly surprised in a very positive way how many people wanted to make use of the service. Because I thought, boy, when you're done after such a run, the last thing you want to do is just sit there and wait for your shoes, basically. But it was a blast. i mean and uh yeah again super happy to be be part of it again this year. Talking about this one do you see that the mind has changed in in trail runners brains that um it's not only about having great shoes and the best shoes on my foot it's also like i want to keep them as long as possible. Because you know when you do an extensive trail running probably they last a year or even shorter it depends on the the mileage you're covering with the shoes but during that time you want to make sure that your gear is always 100%. Has this changed in the last couple of years? Yes and no. I think we still have a little bit of a long way to go. I think it's a fun activation. Let's start off. It's a fun activation. The whole event, it's so community driven. So I think that that's part of it as well. I think what we hope is obviously that we can, whether it's small or large, can influence, let's say, the athletes around their own sustainable behavior. I think if we can show them that we have the right product, they are also right for the environment. And if we can influence a little bit around their sustainable behavior, and if I can influence everybody, let's say, that is either listening to the podcast or that is participating in the event to wash a little bit less and refresh a little bit more, this is what we're all about. And this is also the way we deal with our communities. How can we inspire their own sustainable behavior? Because at the end, it all starts with ourselves. We always talked about your involvement and in the adidas TERREX INFINITE TRAILS in Gastein. Guys, if you haven't been there, they are located just behind the finish line when you go down to the aid station in the Kurpark. Huge tent. They have also some deck chairs there. You can relax. You can have a bite to eat. You can have a zip to drink. So take the time. And I think, Arthur, in the last couple of years, we had perfect weather. We had sunshine, and it was only dust. So how important is, because I think this is what we want, that you guys are busy on the Thursday with the workshop. We want you to be busy on the adidas TERREX booth with the Friday program in the expo where people can come and protect their stuff. So... Talking about community it looks like that it's not only about as you said in the beginning yeah for sure it's like a business opportunity but also you guys care for the community, you care for sustainability. Is this also the reason why you're getting involved in INFINITE TRAILS, because we are a sustainable event and we share the same values? Yeah I have, 100 percent. I think, obviously we also want to participate in like-minded at the end of the day people and I think this is what we see with INFINITE TRAILS. I think like I said last year it was a blast. I think it was so well organized and, this whole community. I mean trial running is obviously already kind of a special breed, let's say, particularly the ultra runners so, it's just fun to see. I mean I bring it almost down to what we stand for as well. I think it's all about the power of sports and the power of community and I think if we can bring those things together and I think that all comes together at INFINITE TRAILS, yeah for us it's THE perfect event, let's say, to participate in because it stands for whatever, we have. And hopefully we have a little bit of rain the day before so that stuff gets really dirty and I really can show off how good our product is. I need to cut this rain the day before. I need to cut this out of the podcast we're not talking about weather. Um. Sorry. One more thing. This was always like in the presentation of Steve Jobs at the Apple keynotes. I know there is a product in the pipeline. Can we talk about it? Uh yeah. Absolutely, because it's launching. So we are actually, yeah, it's a great product. I mean, it took us quite a long time to develop. I think you're referring to the Reflect. Absolutely, yeah. The one that you are referring to. Yeah, so what we developed is actually a spray. So you can put it on your garment. You can put it on your backpack. It puts an invisible layer on your gear and it reflects upon light. And that's a super difficult product to make if you want to do it in an eco-friendly manner. But we succeeded. Super proud of it. We obviously see a lot of applications for it. It's great for runners that go, obviously, at night running, cyclists, skaters, but even your kids going to school. It does wash out, by the way, so don't be scared once you put it on. It does wash out. But it's a really unique product that we're bringing. And we're kind of proud of it that we in the end succeeded because there's a few solutions out there that do a very similar thing, but it's just highly chemical and it's really, really bad for you. So being able to do it in an eco-friendly manner is something that we're really, really proud of. I think you can use it on the start line on the 60K in the morning because this is where the 60K runners take off and running through the village of Bad Hofgastein and then into the woods, I think that is a really, really good thing when it comes to reflect. It's a safety issue as well, you know. As you mentioned, you know, it's not a product only for races. It's more like a product for your daily trail run, for your daily run in the city. Just to be, instead of running with this clip-on wristbands or whatever, you know, I think it's like you can get more visibility. Even if it's washable. And it washes out, I think that's a really really great product i have some ideas already which we need to talk about for INFINITE TRAILS already. So let's do the wrap up. We are almost like 40 minutes into the podcast with 45 minutes normally. I think it was really interesting listening to you and to your statements and your passion about the product and i think this is the most important thing today is that you are passionate about what you do because a lot of people lost this passion um and they get - I think there's not a thing of a burnout it's more like a thing of a bored-out, you know, bored out it's more like okay if you have ideas you need to find the right people and I think with adidas you found the right partner as well um following the goal of sustainability as well. Let's close with a few quick questions with a few short answers. What is your favorite DFNS product or adidas CARE product right now? It definitely is the Reflect. So we were just mentioning at the end and in the right moment. So one care tip you think everyone should start doing immediately? Wash less, refresh more. One piece of gear you personally take care of most? Yeah, that is always shoes. I'm a shoe nut. So, shoes it is. Do you have more shoes than your wife in the closet? I definitely have more shoes than probably... I have a lot of shoes. And finally, where can people learn more about adidas CARE by DFNS or get started with building their own care routine? Listening to my podcast, for sure. Listening to your podcast is a fantastic starting point. No, obviously you can visit us on dfns.com where you will find also the complete adidas collection and there's a lot of explanations also if you have questions on how to use it. And then obviously all the product is available at all the adidas stores. So whenever you see an adidas retail store or on adidas e-com, all the products are available there as well. That's it for today's episode of the INFINITE TALK the podcast of the adidas TERREX INFINITE TRAILS in Gastein with today's topic Equipment Care. A huge thank you to you Arthur taking the time and joining us this morning. It's important to think about sustainability and respect the things we use just keep that in mind. Remember wash less, that was one of the most important topics. Listen to the podcast. I wish you a fantastic training in front of adidas TERREX INFINITE TRAILS in Gastein and hope to hear you and see you in 14 days with another topic. Mostly we're talking about hydration, sweat and salt. Also really important topic which we need to cover. Thanks a lot guys, stay tuned and have a safe trail run in the next days. Thank you.